NICK:  What are your thoughts on Trump’s new immigration plan, Mr. Djokic?

PAVLE:  Nick, to be frank I love it. As of now it is my favorite policy of President Trump’s administration so far.

NICK:  Do you still support his ridiculous, unnecessary, expensive border wall that he outlined in his plan?  

PAVLE: Yes, I do. The fact of the matter is that America does have a big problem with illegal immigration and a border wall is one of the four pillars of Trump’s plan to solve that issue. What I have to ask you is whether you think your gripes with a border wall are enough to stop supporting the other pillar of Trump’s plan that includes giving a path to citizenship for 1.8 million illegal immigrants who were brought to America when they were young?

NICK: The border wall and this plan in general present so many issues– a massive financial burden, a logistical calamity, and quite frankly, making America white again.  I would support Trump’s path to citizenship, even though 12 years until citizenship is a bit extreme.

PAVLE: Nick, my friend, if you think 12 years to become a citizen is extreme, then I think you would be quite surprised to know that my parents, two doctors who knew English before immigrating to this country, have been here for 26 years now and are still two years away from achieving citizenship.  If a border wall is a failure, then how on Earth would it make America white again, or are you just throwing around catchy phrases? The cost of illegal immigration has been $134 Billion so far, which is four times the modest estimate and two times the most conservative cost of a wall.

Trump does not want to keep out the hard-working men and women who contribute to the economy and pay taxes. The wall is to reduce the amount of illegal drugs flooding our country from Mexico and South America, keep out gangs and cartels like MS-13 who prey on innocent civilians, and deter repeated offenders like Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, who was deported five times before coming back, shooting, and killing Kathryn Steinle, an innocent San Francisco girl.

NICK:  I’m sorry your parents have not become U.S. citizens yet.  That’s wrong and is proof of how messed up our system is.  My grandpa came from Italy to America through Canada with no skills and no knowledge of the English language, like the ancestors of so many of today’s Americans– they worked in the coal mines and steel mills and built our railroads– they were all unskilled labor.  We need all kinds of immigrants.  It took my grandpa only five years to become a citizen; the law has changed since to make it more difficult, but it actually needs to be more lenient.  Everyone deserves the same chance in America, and unskilled immigrants are the ones who work gritty jobs that white Americans like ourselves won’t work.  

And no, Pavle, I am not throwing around catchy phrases.  Allow me to explain why this wall would not work, and why it will make America white.  First of all, the hefty price tag on this wall has not been linear throughout time. Politicians and Homeland Security have claimed anywhere from $10 billion to $70 billion over the last few years.  That’s a rather big range, and you have to factor in the costs and legal resources to acquire the land the wall would be built on (since more than  two-thirds of the land is not owned by the federal government).  Additionally, when you have to consider the natural boundaries it faces and must go through (such as rivers), you should see that this wall is a logistical and financial calamity waiting to happen with an unknown price.  All the common sense in the world says this will not stop our problems with illegal immigration and drug trafficking.  Whether by digging under the wall or climbing over it, there will always be a way to come to America.   A wall and Trump’s policies are not going to stop anything.  And in response to why it is making America white, this wall is specifically targeting illegal immigrants from Third World countries south of the border, or “shithole” countries, as our very own President eloquently stated.  I can’t begin to describe how wrong that is on so many levels– this wall simply furthers Trump’s white nationalist, populist demagogue agenda.  

And lastly in response gangs murdering innocent people, yes that’s atrocious.  But in comparison to other homicide rates, murder by illegal immigration is nothing compared to the amount of white American men that murder our citizens.  I’m more concerned that our kids cannot go to school without being shot than I am with illegal immigration and drug trafficking.  But that’s for another debate.

PAVLE: I completely agree, Nick, that the process for skilled, legal immigrants needs to be easier. And to your surprise, so does Trump. However, I disagree with the position that we should be accepting unskilled migrants on assumption that whites do not want to work the job these immigrants will accept. First, that argument degrades an entire race of people by ignoring the fact that shockingly there are other tons of unemployed people of all races, immigrants and Americans. The truth, the real economic truth, is that when you increase the supply of labor, wages will go down. There’s no second way around that. Illegal immigrants are being abused by scummy business owners who take advantage of the fact that they are not documented, which hurts both the immigrants themselves and the jobless Americans who want fair wages. With Trump’s plan to legalize over 1.8 million migrants, they would no longer be subjected to those unfair treatments. I’m honestly glad that your grandparents were able to immigrate legally, but times have changed and the demand for unskilled labor has dramatically decreased over the last half century. By allowing unchecked, unskilled migrants, wages undeniably go down for lower class America.

Nick, this is an all-inclusive immigration debate and so far you have spent over 80% of it debating only one facet of Trump’s plan. The two most recent examples of walls being built have been in Israel and Hungary. In Israel illegal immigration went down 99.5% after their wall went up. In Hungary it went down 99.6%. Unfortunately, the fact of the world is that it is not fair. If most of Africa, Europe, or Asia shared a land border with the US, I would bet my bottom dollar that their impoverished citizens would also try to walk over to the US in search of a better life.  But they can’t, which is why we don’t have a wall with Africa, Europe, or Asia. Over 99.8% of illegal drugs are carried into the country from Mexico.  While the wall would not stop that fully, it would help and also make it easier to patrol the border with infrastructure going up around the wall as well. I think there are legitimate problems with the border wall, but there is a massive issue of rampant, illegal immigration, and the wall is potential solution that could do a lot of good for our nation.

NICK:  So you’re saying the process for unskilled immigrants should be harder simply because they were not fortunate enough to receive a decent education and skills?  And I am not degrading white people, Pavle.  I am simply stating the facts– you and I are white, suburban, educated young adults — what are the odds that either of us is going end up working in a factory or on a farm?  We have a large amount of people willing to come into this country and work their rear ends off for a better life here.  And, of course, I am discussing Trump’s wall because it is the most ludicrous part of his plan.   In response to your Hungarian wall comment, that is a 13 foot, 109-mile-long fence, as opposed to 1,000-1,900 mile-long in America.  We can’t compare apples to oranges.  While we are still on walls, why not mention the Berlin Wall?  Just as the Berlin wall did not ultimately prevent freedom coming to eastern Europe, this wall will not prevent decent people from coming to America to find their own American dream.

I thank you for conceding there are legitimate problems with the border wall, and in return I will concede that 1.8 million immigrants staying in America might be a reasonable bipartisan compromise.  

Even though we have our differences, you are well read man, you argue well, and you can admire a nice prosciutto pizza- all virtuous and amiable qualities, my friend.  

PAVLE:  Yes, that actually is what I’m saying. The US can only take in a limited number of immigrants a year and I think that people who contribute more to our country should be the priority. I must concede that you are right that the wall will be a big challenge logistically and financially. If our politicians can come to a solution to efficiently fund and plan the construction, then it would add benefit. However, if not, the other 3 pillars of Trump’s immigration plan are still excellent and should be given due praise. Let’s get some pizza sometime.🍕🍕🍕🍕🍕🍕

NICK:  We have a date, Pavle.  Thou art a true even match!